Я люблю Киев

КИЕВСКИЙ ФОРУМ
КУЛЬТУРНОГО ОБЩЕНИЯ
FORUMKIEV.COM
Правила Новое Вопросы Ссылки
КИЕВ ПОГОДА ИСТОРИЯ ТУРИСТУ
N-728-MI-2
Вернуться   Киевский форум > Як тебе не любити, Києве мій... > Справочная Киева > Справка > Курсы в Киеве > Языковые курсы - иностранные языки

Общаемся по-английски здесь, на любые интересующие народ темы. Присоединяйтесь!


Ответ
 
Опции темы Опции просмотра
Старый 12.05.2009, 03:04   #31
Епістаменос
 Аватар для Вітя
IP:
Сообщений: 7,140
"Спасибок": 7,903
Очки репутации: 18,191
Мнения: 7843
Доп. информация
По умолчанию Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Общаемся п

Цитата:
Сообщение от Al Capone Посмотреть сообщение
I agree that our system is not perfect but I do not trust the government to "fix" it.
We differ then. I don't think our bureaucrats are inferior to french, german, canadian, etc. bureaucrats. When free market works efficiently, it's the best. However, in health insurance, it doesn't work efficiently.

Цитата:
Wages remained stagnant for objective reasons - the rise of emerging markets, outsourcing, etc.
Can't be. You see, the income of the top quintile has been steadily rising. So has average worker productivity. Obviously the economy is more efficient, more productive, and makes more money. That extra money just doesn't reach the median citizen.

It is very hard to reconcile growing productivity with stagnant median wage yet growing top-quintile income, without recognizing such mis-distribution itself as a problem. If the emerging economies were the cause, it would be affecting the top quintile as well; but the economy as a whole is growing nicely -- it's just that all the income gains are accruing at the top, while the productivity growth is spread through the whole vertical.

Цитата:
The American Dream has not been running idle, it's very much alive and well. The Bill of Rights guarantees the right to the pursuit of happiness, not happiness itself.
But the American Dream is not just the Bill of Rights. It's not only a promise of possibility. Lottery is also a promise of possibility, but lottery is for fools. The American Dream is the promise that these possibilities are within practical reach; that they are for everyone, not the lucky few.

When the middle class is treading water, when the median wage stagnates, I call this the American Dream in the idling gear.

Цитата:
If your wages are low - work extra hours, study at night to aquire a new profession, improve your skills and you will succeed.
Do you think people haven't been doing that?

Цитата:
I see lots of people around that were able to achieve extraordinary success against all odds.
Indeed. You and I are examples of that. However, there are also lots of people who work hard, play by the rules, and yet get nowhere.

Цитата:
I also see a lot of losers who don't want to lift their a** off a chair but complain constantly about life not being fair to them.
How about people who work their asses off on two or three jobs, yet still get nowhere?

I have no pity for idlers, no compassion for those who will not work. In fact, if i could wave a magic wand and take away any and all social services from those who choose to be idle, I would do that in a heartbeat. However, the voluntarily indolent aren't the problem.

Цитата:
There also are 12 million illegal aliens in the country keeping wages low. We have to pay more taxes for their kids to go to school, they get free healthcare raising its cost for people who pay. Why don't we address this issue?
Sure. Let's make them legal, and charge them taxes.

Цитата:
I'll tell you why - because illegal aliens are potential democratic voters. Because unions that bancrupt US corporations by demanding $38/hr wages, huge pensions and healthcare benefits are democratic voters. Because millions on public assistance are democratic voters. Because millions of government employees that couldn't care less about
private corporations - the only engine of growth - are democratic voters, and we will dramatically increase the number of government employees that wouldn't give a rat's behind about productivity.
You seem to have a problem with the democrats.

Did you look at the link i posted for you?
___________
Ceterum Censeo: Veritas et Libertas Ultra Omnis Sunto!
Вітя вне форума  

Ответить с цитированием Вверх
Старый 12.05.2009, 06:16   #32
IVK
Почетный легион
 Аватар для IVK
IP:
Сообщений: 6,391
"Спасибок": 8,097
Очки репутации: 75,105
Мнения: 5462
Доп. информация
По умолчанию Re: Общаемся по-английски здесь, на любые интересующие народ темы. Присоединяйтесь!

Good idea with this topic. Thanks Al Capone. I am planing to go to the conference in June. Of course chemistry.

добавлено через 46 секунд
Цитата:
Сообщение от Chizhune4ka Посмотреть сообщение
Hello! I'm glad to see so nice topic....
I don't speak english very well but i can tell about different diseases and it's clinical manifistations.... but only if you asked me

Where did you learn English?

добавлено через 3 минуты
Цитата:
Сообщение от Свидетель Посмотреть сообщение
Hello !
Is It you I met on the forums of "Ежа" or "БФ" ?
Now about trips.
In winter I like to be in mountains (ski) and in April I already diving and swiming in the Red sea.
In all trips I ride with my family.

Why Red Sea? Have you been there?
___________
Опыт жизни в СССР научил меня никогда не верить лозунгам.
IVK вне форума  

Ответить с цитированием Вверх
Старый 12.05.2009, 06:29   #33
IVK
Почетный легион
 Аватар для IVK
IP:
Сообщений: 6,391
"Спасибок": 8,097
Очки репутации: 75,105
Мнения: 5462
Доп. информация
По умолчанию postRe: Общаемся по-английски

Цитата:
Сообщение от Al Capone Посмотреть сообщение
There also are 12 million illegal aliens in the country keeping wages low. We have to pay more taxes for their kids to go to school, they get free healthcare raising its cost for people who pay. Why don't we address this issue? I'll tell you why - because illegal aliens are potential democratic voters.
Sound like "Savage Nation"

Цитата:
Сообщение от Al Capone Посмотреть сообщение
Because unions that bancrupt US corporations by demanding $38/hr wages, huge pensions and healthcare benefits are democratic voters. Because millions on public assistance are democratic voters. Because millions of government employees that couldn't care less about
private corporations - the only engine of growth - are democratic voters, and we will dramatically increase the number of government employees that wouldn't give a rat's behind about productivity.
What is your view on this? What would be a solution to healthcare, for instance?
I blame CIO and their policies for bankruption of US corporations.
___________
Опыт жизни в СССР научил меня никогда не верить лозунгам.
IVK вне форума  
Сказавших "Спасибо!": 1 (показать список)
Ответить с цитированием Вверх
Старый 12.05.2009, 09:31   #34
Прелестная любопытка
 Аватар для Chizhune4ka
IP: DN
Сообщений: 1,357
"Спасибок": 4,215
Очки репутации: 0
Мнения: 894
Доп. информация
По умолчанию Re: Общаемся по-английски здесь, на любые интересующие народ темы. Присоединяйтесь!

Цитата:
Where did you learn English?
We have special course of medical english in our university. before it i have learnt english at school
___________
В страну моей души нельзя без виз… Граница охраняется надежно, попасть в неё без искренней любви, и настоящей дружбы не возможно....
Chizhune4ka вне форума  
Сказавших "Спасибо!": 1 (показать список)
Ответить с цитированием Вверх
Старый 12.05.2009, 10:42   #35
Почетный легион
 Аватар для Свидетель
IP:
Сообщений: 4,532
"Спасибок": 4,086
Очки репутации: 7,625
Мнения: -685
Доп. информация
По умолчанию Re: Общаемся по-английски здесь, на любые интересующие народ темы. Присоединяйтесь!

Цитата:
Сообщение от IVK Посмотреть сообщение
Why Red Sea?
- Because it is most beautiful from seas(not far from Europe)

Цитата:
Have you been there?
Do you doubt ?
___________
... не проворным достается успешный бег, не храбрым - победа, не мудрым - хлеб, и не у разумных - богатство, и не искусным - благорасположение, но время и случай для всех их.
Свидетель вне форума  

Ответить с цитированием Вверх
Старый 12.05.2009, 17:17   #36
IVK
Почетный легион
 Аватар для IVK
IP:
Сообщений: 6,391
"Спасибок": 8,097
Очки репутации: 75,105
Мнения: 5462
Доп. информация
По умолчанию Re: Общаемся по-английски здесь, на любые интересующие народ темы. Присоединяйтесь!

Цитата:
Сообщение от Chizhune4ka Посмотреть сообщение
We have special course of medical english in our university. before it i have learnt english at school
I remember our English classes at KPI - I learn nothing there. May be it was too much beer.


Why did you decide to learn English? Do you have to learn Latin as well?

добавлено через 4 минуты
Цитата:
Сообщение от Свидетель Посмотреть сообщение
- Because it is most beautiful from seas(not far from Europe)
How is the weather out there? Is it hot in summer?

Цитата:
Do you doubt ?
Not at all. I am curious why people choose to go places. How did you find out that Red Sea is a good place to visit/spend time/fun place?
___________
Опыт жизни в СССР научил меня никогда не верить лозунгам.
IVK вне форума  

Ответить с цитированием Вверх
Старый 12.05.2009, 17:39   #37
Агент Госдепа
 Аватар для Al Capone
IP:
Сообщений: 14,643
"Спасибок": 18,110
Очки репутации: 56,854
Мнения: 10491
Доп. информация
- Автор темы - По умолчанию Re: postRe: Общаемся по-английски

Цитата:
Сообщение от IVK Посмотреть сообщение
Sound like "Savage Nation"

What is your view on this? What would be a solution to healthcare, for instance?

I blame CIO and their policies for bankruption of US corporations.
Yes it does, doesn't it?

Solution to healthcare problems - evolution, not revolution. US has the best healthcare in the world for people that are insured, I've seen miracles, literally - "terminally ill" from the former USSR were transformed into healthy people with many years of productive life, often with non-invasive procedures. Let's improve our current system - there are HUGE opportunities in prevention - let's open prevention clinics paid for by the taxpayer's, it' much cheaper than paying for treatment of the uninsured in emergency rooms. Let's address the abuse of the Medicaid system. Let's mandate universal insurance for catastrofic medical costs for everyone.
Let's change practices of trying to extend existence of braindead. There are so many things we can do besides socializing and rationing healthcare!

I'll tell you what - imagine that you are a CEO of a large corporation.
You have a union contract that forces you to pay $38/hr to your workers.
The same contract forces you to pay workers even if they are not working. You can't fire these workers if demand for your products deminishes. The contract also forces you to pay huge sums to retired workers that now live much longer. You also have to pay their healthcare costs that are skyroketing.
You are competing against japanese car companies that pay their workers $15/hr, have no unions, no company pensions, no company provided healthcare for retirees. Because of that they can re-invest all this money in research, development of new products, etc. They are flexible - they can fire and hire workers in a heartbeat if the business conditions change.

Who do you think will win? Are the CEOs to blame?
___________
Мне очень не нравится внешняя политика США, поэтому я предпочитаю жить внутри.
Al Capone вне форума  

Ответить с цитированием Вверх
Старый 12.05.2009, 17:49   #38
IVK
Почетный легион
 Аватар для IVK
IP:
Сообщений: 6,391
"Спасибок": 8,097
Очки репутации: 75,105
Мнения: 5462
Доп. информация
По умолчанию Re: postRe: Общаемся по-английски

Цитата:
Сообщение от Al Capone Посмотреть сообщение
I'll tell you what - imagine that you are a CEO of a large corporation.
You have a union contract that forces you to pay $38/hr to your workers.
The same contract forces you to pay workers even if they are not working. You can't fire these workers if demand for your products deminishes. The contract also forces you to pay huge sums to retired workers that now live much longer. You also have to pay their healthcare costs that are skyroketing.
You are competing against japanese car companies that pay their workers $15/hr, have no unions, no company pensions, no company provided healthcare for retirees. Because of that they can re-invest all this money in research, development of new products, etc. They are flexible - they can fire and hire workers in a heartbeat if the business conditions change.

Who do you think will win? Are the CEOs to blame?
I think that CEO originally negotiated contracts with unions. Let's say 20-30 years ago. Now current CEO has to take action. It was just bad management decision long ago and companies has to pay for it.

One thing I do not understand. Japanese cars also assemble in the USA. How come their CEO was allowed to hire workers not from unions?
___________
Опыт жизни в СССР научил меня никогда не верить лозунгам.
IVK вне форума  

Ответить с цитированием Вверх
Старый 12.05.2009, 17:59   #39
Епістаменос
 Аватар для Вітя
IP:
Сообщений: 7,140
"Спасибок": 7,903
Очки репутации: 18,191
Мнения: 7843
Доп. информация
По умолчанию Відповідь: Re: postRe: Общаемся по-английски

Цитата:
Сообщение от IVK Посмотреть сообщение
One thing I do not understand. Japanese cars also assemble in the USA. How come their CEO was allowed to hire workers not from unions?
Because each plant negotiates its own union contract, if any; so a plant might simply not have a union there. The workers of each individual enterprise must unionize on their own. The workers of e.g. Toyota plants don't unionize AFAIK.

I am not against unions in general. I think they play an important role in counterbalancing the monopsonic power of employers. However, I think the employers these days don't have enough control.

I believe the employers must be either free to hire/fire at will, or free to set wages at will.
___________
Ceterum Censeo: Veritas et Libertas Ultra Omnis Sunto!
Вітя вне форума  
Сказавших "Спасибо!": 2 (показать список)
Сказавших "Фууу!": 1 (показать список)
Ответить с цитированием Вверх
Старый 12.05.2009, 18:07   #40
Агент Госдепа
 Аватар для Al Capone
IP:
Сообщений: 14,643
"Спасибок": 18,110
Очки репутации: 56,854
Мнения: 10491
Доп. информация
- Автор темы - По умолчанию Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Общаем

Цитата:
Сообщение от Вітя Посмотреть сообщение
We differ then. I don't think our bureaucrats are inferior to french, german, canadian, etc. bureaucrats. When free market works efficiently, it's the best. However, in health insurance, it doesn't work efficiently.

Can't be. You see, the income of the top quintile has been steadily rising. So has average worker productivity. Obviously the economy is more efficient, more productive, and makes more money. That extra money just doesn't reach the median citizen.

It is very hard to reconcile growing productivity with stagnant median wage yet growing top-quintile income, without recognizing such mis-distribution itself as a problem. If the emerging economies were the cause, it would be affecting the top quintile as well; but the economy as a whole is growing nicely -- it's just that all the income gains are accruing at the top, while the productivity growth is spread through the whole vertical.

But the American Dream is not just the Bill of Rights. It's not only a promise of possibility. Lottery is also a promise of possibility, but lottery is for fools. The American Dream is the promise that these possibilities are within practical reach; that they are for everyone, not the lucky few.

When the middle class is treading water, when the median wage stagnates, I call this the American Dream in the idling gear.

Do you think people haven't been doing that?

Indeed. You and I are examples of that. However, there are also lots of people who work hard, play by the rules, and yet get nowhere.

How about people who work their asses off on two or three jobs, yet still get nowhere?

I have no pity for idlers, no compassion for those who will not work. In fact, if i could wave a magic wand and take away any and all social services from those who choose to be idle, I would do that in a heartbeat. However, the voluntarily indolent aren't the problem.

Sure. Let's make them legal, and charge them taxes.

You seem to have a problem with the democrats.

Did you look at the link i posted for you?
You talk about stagnant wages, about people getting nowhere. Yes, there are many people like that. The world is not fair - even hard workers and their children fall ill, lose jobs, have disability or other circumstances preventing them from getting ahead. But for every person that cannot get ahead there are many that can, even in these conditions. You can work 5 jobs, but if you spend more than you earn, if you live on credit cards that charge 22% you will never get ahead. On the other hand even if your wages are low you can still save more, work harder, improve your skills.
But if you are the one that saved every penny for many years by living below your means how is that fair for the government to bail out your neighbor that bought a $500,000 house having a $40,000 income? How fair is it for your hard earned and saved dollars to be diluted by the government that prints money like there's no tomorrow and spends it on waistful government programs? The republicans are just as guilty.

We are a country of laws. We cannot enforce some laws and ignore others (because we like it more, because it's prudent, because it's popular). These people got into the US ILLEGALLY. They should be treated as any law breaker, and in any case we should not pay for their education, medical treatment, incarceration, etc. If the government thinks we need more immigrants let's increase LEGAL immigration. We would check legal immigrant's background, we would select specialists we need.
Millions of law abiding people are patiently waiting a chance to come to the US, they applied legally, they respect the law of our land. I would rather give them a chance.

I have a problem with Democrats and Republicans.

I saw the link. I think the data there is "cooked". Even if the numbers are correct you can argue that the higher growth rate during democratic terms is due to the seeds planted by prior republican administrations.
Growth rates depend on many factors and (thank God!) in the US who is at the top is not the decisive factor in growth. Moreover, the most right wing republican today is more left wing that the most liberal democrat 30 years ago. Today's democrats would call Truman a "right wing nut job".
___________
Мне очень не нравится внешняя политика США, поэтому я предпочитаю жить внутри.
Al Capone вне форума  

Ответить с цитированием Вверх
Старый 12.05.2009, 18:15   #41
Amy
you can google it
 Аватар для Amy
IP:
Сообщений: 903
"Спасибок": 1,239
Очки репутации: 0
Мнения:
Доп. информация
По умолчанию Re: Общаемся по-английски здесь, на любые интересующие народ темы. Присоединяйтесь!

Цитата:
Сообщение от Chizhune4ka Посмотреть сообщение
We have special course of medical english in our university. before it i have learnt english at school
Ohh,I'm full up of latin. 'Porta antiqua' is my handbook
___________
'Знаешь, приятель, или ты веришь в себя, или падаешь' (Jim Morrison)
Amy вне форума  
Сказавших "Спасибо!": 1 (показать список)
Ответить с цитированием Вверх
Старый 12.05.2009, 18:31   #42
Епістаменос
 Аватар для Вітя
IP:
Сообщений: 7,140
"Спасибок": 7,903
Очки репутации: 18,191
Мнения: 7843
Доп. информация
По умолчанию Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь:

Цитата:
Сообщение от Al Capone Посмотреть сообщение
You talk about stagnant wages, about people getting nowhere. Yes, there are many people like that. The world is not fair - even hard workers and their children fall ill, lose jobs, have disability or other circumstances preventing them from getting ahead. But for every person that cannot get ahead there are many that can, even in these conditions. You can work 5 jobs, but if you spend more than you earn, if you live on credit cards that charge 22% you will never get ahead. On the other hand even if your wages are low you can still save more, work harder, improve your skills.
All this works in individual cases; but that doesn't touch the systemic problems -- american middle class, as a whole, is treading water.

Цитата:
But if you are the one that saved every penny for many years by living below your means how is that fair for the government to bail out your neighbor that bought a $500,000 house having a $40,000 income?
Those don't get bailouts. The restructuring is directed only to those people who could pay the restructured loan. The $40k/yr guy is caput.

Цитата:
We are a country of laws. We cannot enforce some laws and ignore others (because we like it more, because it's prudent, because it's popular). These people got into the US ILLEGALLY. They should be treated as any law breaker,
Do you suggest we toss 10mln people into prison? or deport them all? Any solution must be practical, realistic, not just based on what ought to be.

Цитата:
I saw the link. I think the data there is "cooked".
All the data is meticulously sourced. it generally comes from BEA, CBO, various research papers, etc. Sorry dude, but it's true -- Dems are better for the economy.

Цитата:
Even if the numbers are correct you can argue that the higher growth rate during democratic terms is due to the seeds planted by prior republican administrations.
No, you can't. that link includes some analyses which account for the policy effect delay factor. it doesn't help GOP. And the policy effect delay is generally considered to be small, less than 2 years.

Цитата:
Growth rates depend on many factors and (thank God!) in the US who is at the top is not the decisive factor in growth.
Certainly not the decisive one, but it does exert its influence.

Цитата:
Moreover, the most right wing republican today is more left wing that the most liberal democrat 30 years ago. Today's democrats would call Truman a "right wing nut job".
And today's republicans would have called Nixon flaming pinko commie socialist. So what?

The fact remains that historically, US economy had done better under Dems than under GOP.

Oh, and one more interesting fact... This was my own analysis, i don't have it handy, but i can dig it up if needed. Of the last 6 recessions before this one, all six happened on the GOP presidential watch, most of them into the second half of the term (so for most of them you couldn't possibly claim lagging Dem effect). The chance of this occurring by pure chance, 6 out of 6 on GOP presidency, is less than 5%.
___________
Ceterum Censeo: Veritas et Libertas Ultra Omnis Sunto!
Вітя вне форума  
Сказавших "Спасибо!": 2 (показать список)
Сказавших "Фууу!": 1 (показать список)
Ответить с цитированием Вверх
Старый 12.05.2009, 18:36   #43
Агент Госдепа
 Аватар для Al Capone
IP:
Сообщений: 14,643
"Спасибок": 18,110
Очки репутации: 56,854
Мнения: 10491
Доп. информация
- Автор темы - По умолчанию Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Общаем

Цитата:
Сообщение от Вітя Посмотреть сообщение
When the middle class is treading water, when the median wage stagnates, I call this the American Dream in the idling gear.

Indeed. You and I are examples of that. However, there are also lots of people who work hard, play by the rules, and yet get nowhere.
Do you consider yourself a member of the middle class? Are your wages stagnant or have they been growing steadily in the last several years? How about your living standards? If they grew substantially - you have disproved your own statements about stagnating wages and idling dreams.

If most of the american middle class decided to dig themselves into a hole by living well above their means (and, btw, government encouraged them to) - they have only themselves to blame. You could have doubled their wages - the results would have been the same.

Besides, wages is not the only indicator of prosperity. I try to minimize my taxable income and maximize my non-taxable income to save my money from Mr. Obama's largesse. It's not how much you make, it's how much you manage to keep. I am personally acquainted with some low income (read - low taxable income) people that are rich by many standards.

Do you think that the American Dream failed you or do you believe in individualism and personal responsibility, think that if you failed it would be because of your own shortcomings, not the system's? That's what I believe. This is the only country in the World where total outsiders like you and I can hope to achieve their wildest dreams. If I fail to achieve my American Dream it would be entirely my fault.
___________
Мне очень не нравится внешняя политика США, поэтому я предпочитаю жить внутри.
Al Capone вне форума  
Сказавших "Спасибо!": 2 (показать список)
Ответить с цитированием Вверх
Старый 12.05.2009, 19:07   #44
Епістаменос
 Аватар для Вітя
IP:
Сообщений: 7,140
"Спасибок": 7,903
Очки репутации: 18,191
Мнения: 7843
Доп. информация
По умолчанию Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь:

Цитата:
Сообщение от Al Capone Посмотреть сообщение
Do you consider yourself a member of the middle class? Are your wages stagnant or have they been growing steadily in the last several years?
I am a member of the middle class. i am also not at all hard-working, i assure you. However, without false modesty, I did win the genetic lottery. That is why I have so easily finished college, gotten a well-paying job, etc. What about people who don't have stratospheric IQ and superb memory?

Цитата:
How about your living standards? If they grew substantially - you have disproved your own statements about stagnating wages and idling dreams.
An anecdote is not data. Median wage, adjusted for inflation, has been stagnant. That's a brute fact of life, Al.

Цитата:
Do you think that the American Dream failed you or do you believe in individualism and personal responsibility, think that if you failed it would be because of your own shortcomings, not the system's?
Both. Any outcome is a combination of personal and systemic traits. Were i born in Somalia, i would have likely be quite screwed by now.

The society creates the environment in which individual initiative can flourish. "American Dream" is not "Come here, we are just like any other place, but you can try really hard!" -- it is "Come here and be free, we have created the environment where an individual can flourish!"

There is a combination of systemic and individual factors at play. Americans today are no dumber than in the 50ies or 60ies or 70ies, and no lazier; quite the contrary, we actually work more hours per week. However, the previous generations lived in a different socioeconomic environment which was more conducive to fulfilling the American Dream.

Your point is like saying that how healthy you stay is wholly up to you; except that if you live in a world without indoor plumbing and vaccination, staying healthy is way, way harder.

The outcome is always a combination of individual and systemic factors.

Цитата:
That's what I believe. This is the only country in the World where total outsiders like you and I can hope to achieve their wildest dreams. If I fail to achieve my American Dream it would be entirely my fault.
On an individual level, yes. On a systemic level, when one decade people are achieving it, and suddenly in another decade they are not, without radically changing as a people in their attitude towards work, you look for systemic problems.

BTW, this shift in the societal economic growth coincided with Reagan's presidency, with his advancement of trickle-down economics. The only respite from the wage stagnation we got was during late Clinton's years (oh yes, Internet, another socialized marvel!), Clinton incidentally having rejected Reaganomics.
___________
Ceterum Censeo: Veritas et Libertas Ultra Omnis Sunto!
Вітя вне форума  
Сказавших "Спасибо!": 2 (показать список)
Сказавших "Фууу!": 1 (показать список)
Ответить с цитированием Вверх
Старый 12.05.2009, 19:45   #45
Агент Госдепа
 Аватар для Al Capone
IP:
Сообщений: 14,643
"Спасибок": 18,110
Очки репутации: 56,854
Мнения: 10491
Доп. информация
- Автор темы - По умолчанию Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відповідь: Re: Відпов

Цитата:
Сообщение от Вітя Посмотреть сообщение
What about people who don't have stratospheric IQ and superb memory?

Were i born in Somalia, i would have likely be quite screwed by now.

However, the previous generations lived in a different socioeconomic environment which was more conducive to fulfilling the American Dream. On an individual level, yes. On a systemic level, when one decade people are achieving it, and suddenly in another decade they are not, without radically changing as a people in their attitude towards work, you look for systemic problems.
I do not have "stratospheric IQ and superb memory" and yet I am doing great. I know people that have below average IQ who own construction companies and are millionaires. Everyone chooses their own way and everyone has a chance to succeed. Some will have to work harder than others, that's how life is, no matter what country you're in.

If you were born in Somalia and came to the US you would have a very good chances to succeed, just like everyone else - eather through superior brain or through hard work or because you can dance, sing or play basketball, or in some other way. No one can guarantee equality - after all, we are not communists.

The World is changing rapidly. Nothing can stop globalization, the socioeconomic conditions change for a reason and these changes are not reversible. American workers are now competing with workers all over the World, not just locally like 30 years ago. This has put huge downward pressure on wages - wages rise rapidly elsewhere but remain stagnant in the developed world. We have to change ourselves to thrive in the future, it's a fact of life. Conditions that existed in the late 1800s no longer exist. Nor do conditions that existed in the 1950s. No country can keep undisputed leadership in middle class conditions without changing, and even then there are no guarantees. To blame wage stagnation on democrats or republicans is beside the point.

In my opinion cutting taxes entices american companies to stay in the US and attracts foreign companies to come to this country. This results in creation of new jobs with good wages. Encouraging innovation and productivity, promoting individual initiative and responsibility, taking advantage of all competitive capitalizm has to offer is the only way to win the fight for american prosperity. Socialism, redistribution of capital from rich to poor, spreading the wealth is the way to economic hell.
___________
Мне очень не нравится внешняя политика США, поэтому я предпочитаю жить внутри.
Al Capone вне форума  
Сказавших "Спасибо!": 1 (показать список)
Ответить с цитированием Вверх

Ответ

Опции темы
Опции просмотра

Ваши права в разделе

Смайлы Вкл.
[IMG] код Вкл.
HTML код Выкл.
Trackbacks are Выкл.
Pingbacks are Выкл.
Refbacks are Выкл.

Похожие темы
Тема Автор Раздел Ответов Последнее сообщение
Кафе - общаемся... Киевский глюк Поговорим ка ;) 807 02.06.2014 10:23
Кафе - общаемся... nazri Поговорим ка ;) 2501 19.09.2013 22:29


Часовой пояс GMT +3, время: 09:45.


Работает на vBulletin® Версия форума 3.х.х. Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

© ForumKiev.com 2007 - 2021