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Старый 12.05.2009, 20:07   #46
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Сообщение от Al Capone Посмотреть сообщение
If you were born in Somalia and came to the US you would have a very good chances to succeed, just like everyone else - eather through superior brain or through hard work or because you can dance, sing or play basketball, or in some other way. No one can guarantee equality - after all, we are not communists.
Indeed. however, we can offer good, reachable opportunities. People who tried exceptionally hard could succeed anywhere -- in USSR as well. That's not really a criterion of whether the American Dream is working is it?

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The World is changing rapidly. Nothing can stop globalization,
Nor should anyone sane want to. Globalization makes the world a better place.

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the socioeconomic conditions change for a reason and these changes are not reversible. American workers are now competing with workers all over the World, not just locally like 30 years ago.
But that doesn't change anything. The reason why globalization works for everyone, not just the ones who have some absolute advantage, is also the reason why american workers under globalization actually benefit from it overall. Studies on NAFTA, as flawed as it is, have shown that the net impact of it has been positive. So you cannot blame the problems on globalization -- quite the contrary, it should have made things better (although more dynamic and less stable).

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This has put huge downward pressure on wages - wages rise rapidly elsewhere but remain stagnant in the developed world.
But then why doesn't this similarly affect the upper quintile?

The wage-earners must compete with overseas, but we also have lower prices due to global trade. The net effect is a positive; except that the gains don't go to the same people who sustain the losses.

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In my opinion cutting taxes entices american companies to stay in the US and attracts foreign companies to come to this country.
I am open to that. A VAT might be a better alternative than a corporate income tax, though there's a lot of subtleties there.

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This results in creation of new jobs with good wages. Encouraging innovation and productivity, promoting individual initiative and responsibility, taking advantage of all competitive capitalizm has to offer is the only way to win the fight for american prosperity. Socialism, redistribution of capital from rich to poor, spreading the wealth is the way to economic hell.
No, the way to economic hell is either extreme (though admittedly the socialistic hell is way more hellish that laissez-faire hell).

We had the Gilded Age, it wasn't much fun. IMO it's the state's job to keep the economy as free as is practical, while smoothing out the rough edges. There has to be a balance struck between long-term growth and quality of life today.
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Старый 12.05.2009, 20:22   #47
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Why did you decide to learn English? Do you have to learn Latin as well?
We have Latin last year.... english it is basic subject
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Старый 12.05.2009, 20:43   #48
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Indeed. however, we can offer good, reachable opportunities. People who tried exceptionally hard could succeed anywhere -- in USSR as well. That's not really a criterion of whether the American Dream is working is it?

But then why doesn't this similarly affect the upper quintile?
The wage-earners must compete with overseas, but we also have lower prices due to global trade. The net effect is a positive; except that the gains don't go to the same people who sustain the losses.

IMO it's the state's job to keep the economy as free as is practical, while smoothing out the rough edges. There has to be a balance struck between long-term growth and quality of life today.
Define "good, reachable opportunities". In the USSR no matter how hard you worked and how brilliantly you performed in your profession you could not achieve much more than your neighbor-alcoholic. Unless you were a member of the elite, that is, but then you didn't have to work hard at all.
You had the same sh*ty apartment in a concrete block, a "Lada" soapbox,
the same distrofic chickens for 1.20 a kg. your wife could get by fighting other desperadoes in a huge line. It's a far cry from the opportunities that are open to people in a free capitalist society.

It just doesn't bacause the upper quintile has capital, they have their own corporations (read - tax shelters), but an attempt to artificially fix this imbalance won't work (you probably read Kiyosaki). When I see higher taxes I try to avoid them - by maximizing my ROTH IRA (tax free) contributions and by other creative means. The "rich" will find a way to avoid taxes by employing lawyers and accountants, by using tax shelters, by moving their companies overseas, by not bringing foreign profits back to the US. Then the middle class (the same people we want to help) will be stuck paying more taxes, growth will be slow, jobs will disappear.

Agree 100%, but it's not what Obama's administration is doing, IMO.
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Старый 12.05.2009, 21:08   #49
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Define "good, reachable opportunities".
Say, something practically reachable for Average Joe -- i.e. the median worker.

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In the USSR no matter how hard you worked and how brilliantly you performed in your profession you could not achieve much more than your neighbor-alcoholic. Unless you were a member of the elite, that is, but then you didn't have to work hard at all.
You could always spin, go left, work weekends, raise foxes, etc... My stepfather was like this, he would always make money on the side. it's just that USSR made this insanely hard; but if you worked hard enough, you could do well. So being able to succeed if you work hard enough is not a very good criterion.

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You had the same sh*ty apartment in a concrete block, a "Lada" soapbox, the same distrofic chickens for 1.20 a kg. your wife could get by fighting other desperadoes in a huge line. It's a far cry from the opportunities that are open to people in a free capitalist society.
Exactly. USA is better because it offers better opportunities, not because anyone can succeed if they try hard enough.

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It just doesn't bacause the upper quintile has capital, they have their own corporations (read - tax shelters), but an attempt to artificially fix this imbalance won't work (you probably read Kiyosaki). When I see higher taxes I try to avoid them - by maximizing my ROTH IRA (tax free)
Roth are the taxed one, you make deposits post-tax. Traditional IRA is the pre-tax one which lets you shelter money from income tax. What's especially sweet is that it's not a deduction, but an AGI adjustment, which offers some extra advantages. With Roth you pay tax now, but then withdrawals are tax-free. With Traditional IRA you pay income tax when you take distribution in retirement.

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Agree 100%, but it's not what Obama's administration is doing, IMO.
he is in office. See how the country is doing three years from now. Give him his duly elected chance, dude. Obama is no idiot, and he isn't trying to impoverish America.
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Старый 12.05.2009, 21:19   #50
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Roth are the taxed one, you make deposits post-tax. Traditional IRA is the pre-tax one which lets you shelter money from income tax. What's especially sweet is that it's not a deduction, but an AGI adjustment, which offers some extra advantages. With Roth you pay tax now, but then withdrawals are tax-free. With Traditional IRA you pay income tax when you take distribution in retirement.

he is in office. See how the country is doing three years from now. Give him his duly elected chance, dude. Obama is no idiot, and he isn't trying to impoverish America.
I know about IRA types.

ROTH is the one that lets your money grow tax free (you pay taxes up front), and that's why it's my favorite. The government can bend over backwards and raise taxes to 100% but they can't touch the money in ROTH. If they try to do that it's "Annie, get your gun." You cannot be sure they won't do that if they decide you are too rich but I don't believe it's probable. I have a contingency plan for that case, too.

Traditional IRA is "tell us how much money you have and we'll decide how much you should pay in taxes later". You cannot hope to be treated gently, especially by democrats and especially if your balance is pretty large. There are a lot of poor or bankrupt middle class people that need support. I use 401K, of course, but it's does not guarantee freedom from taxes while ROTH does.

I know he is elected, I am giving him all the chances in the World and wish him the best.
Still, I have the right to express my opinion about the direction of the country and I think we are
moving towards european-style socialism which I detest.
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Старый 12.05.2009, 21:25   #51
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I know about IRA types.

ROTH is the one that lets your money grow tax free (you pay taxes up front), and that's why it's my favorite.
And Traditional IRA is tax-deferred -- they can't tax its growth, the can only tax the amount when you withdraw it.

What it comes down to is, do you pay higher income tax now, or do you expect to pay higher rate when you retire? So it's kinda a personal choice, otherwise the math comes out the same either way.

I have some money in Roth and some in Traditional.

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Traditional IRA is "tell us how much money you have and we'll decide how much you should pay in taxes later".
Well, if you think income taxes will get much higher, then Roth is for you. On the other hand, income taxes under Clinton were lower than under Reagan.

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You cannot hope to be treated gently, especially by democrats and especially if your balance is pretty large.
Dude, lay off the paranoia. We are not Russia, you know? We aren't a mafia state.

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There are a lot of poor or bankrupt middle class people that need support. I use 401K, of course, but it's does not guarantee freedom from taxes while ROTH does.
if the state goes mafioso and reneges on all its promises, Roth will be just as uncertain as Traditional. So the only real difference is, when you do think you will pay a lower rate, now or later?
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Старый 12.05.2009, 21:34   #52
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And Traditional IRA is tax-deferred -- they can't tax its growth, the can only tax the amount when you withdraw it.
What it comes down to is, do you pay higher income tax now, or do you expect to pay higher rate when you retire? So it's kinda a personal choice, otherwise the math comes out the same either way.

Dude, lay off the paranoia. We are not Russia, you know? We aren't a mafia state.

if the state goes mafioso and reneges on all its promises, Roth will be just as uncertain as Traditional. So the only real difference is, when you do think you will pay a lower rate, now or later?
With Roth there is certainty - what you see is what you get. With traditional you cannot be sure what the tax rate will be when you are ready to withdraw the money. The way I see it, there is a risk of stagnation. If the economy will not grow substantially (and even if it does) there is no way we will be able to pay off our debts, especially to Social security and Medicare without raising taxes on "the rich". To rely on tax rates to stay the same is a gamble.

I am not paranoid, just realistic.

I hope it won't come to that.
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Старый 12.05.2009, 21:39   #53
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Because each plant negotiates its own union contract, if any; so a plant might simply not have a union there. The workers of each individual enterprise must unionize on their own. The workers of e.g. Toyota plants don't unionize AFAIK.

I am not against unions in general. I think they play an important role in counterbalancing the monopsonic power of employers. However, I think the employers these days don't have enough control.

I believe the employers must be either free to hire/fire at will, or free to set wages at will.

That is exactly what I meant when refer to CEO responsibility. GM, for instance, had made a bad management decisions and now GM facing consequences.

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Ohh,I'm full up of latin. 'Porta antiqua' is my handbook
Do you in medical field too? What specialty?
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Старый 12.05.2009, 21:50   #54
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We have Latin last year.... english it is basic subject
Do you feel you need English to grow or its just fun to learn?
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Старый 12.05.2009, 21:59   #55
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I think that CEO originally negotiated contracts with unions. Let's say 20-30 years ago. Now current CEO has to take action. It was just bad management decision long ago and companies has to pay for it.
Yes, CEOs negotiated original contracts under the gun of the unions and under different business conditions. They are not to blame. Instead of agreeing to a sustainable salary and benefit levels long ago unions persisted in bullying the management into submission.
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Старый 12.05.2009, 23:35   #56
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Do you feel you need English to grow or its just fun to learn?
I need english to grow and for my future... you must know foreign languages if you want to work out of contry
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Старый 13.05.2009, 00:04   #57
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I need english to grow and for my future... you must know foreign languages if you want to work out of contry
Yap. It's true. You should talk and speak. Do you practice speaking English?
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Старый 13.05.2009, 05:39   #58
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Al,

What are your plans? Have you considered seriously getting into the business of fixing up the GOP? USA desperately needs a functional, sane opposition party, but right now GOP is slowly imploding. You sound like you could offer some help to your local chapter.

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Yap.
Careful, don't write this to anyone you don't already know. 'Yap' means 'тявкать', both literally and figuratively. The colloquial affirmative is written as "yup".
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Старый 13.05.2009, 06:32   #59
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Yap. It's true. You should talk and speak. Do you practice speaking English?
I try to practice english when I'm written letters to my friend from Florida
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Старый 13.05.2009, 17:55   #60
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Al,

What are your plans? Have you considered seriously getting into the business of fixing up the GOP? USA desperately needs a functional, sane opposition party, but right now GOP is slowly imploding. You sound like you could offer some help to your local chapter.
I don't like politics and will not touch it with a 10 foot pole. I am not Arlen Spector. To advance in politics you need to tailor your "convictions" to public opinion and I am not willing to do that. That's why GOP morphed into a pale copy of Democratic party. You cannot win now without the support of gays, minorities, unions, proponents of immigration amnesty and everyone else. To win you need to be all-inclusive and attract everyone, compromise on every level. This disgusts me. I'll work, pay taxes, try to adapt, try to build the best future for my kids. And hope that America will remain a meritocracy and not become a socialist state.
___________
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